A guy reads Twilight by Stephenie Meyer (2009-2011)

Reading Eclipse: Chapter 23 (Monster)

The song for this chapter is Inevitable by Anberlin

[audio:https://twilightguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/inevitable.mp3]

Many apologies for my lack of regular posting over the past month: as witnessed in my last post, things are simply becoming too overwhelming for one person to handle! But I think I’ve finally started to get the most rabid of to-do’s under control, now that those three biology tests are over and I’ve finished my 14-page publicity questionnaire! Unfortunately for my fellow students, I had a slight upper hand when one of the questions in the test was coincidentally regarding prophase and interphase. Due to Edward and Bella, the terms had stuck out to me in the study guide, and of course I knew the answer to that one 😀 .

Anyhow, thousands of distractions aside, I’m finally getting to read the famed chapter 23! MONSTER is one of my favorite words in the dictionary. It stands next to ‘abhor’, ‘stink’, ‘loathsome’ and ‘abysmal’ in my list of favorite English terms, such that my opinion of a perfect sentence might use all of them at once, to the effect of:

“You loathsome monster!” Bella cried. “You stink like an abysmal, abhorrent dog, so cease and desist your obvious attempts at stealing me from Edward!”

However, I do not see these phrases being used in the near future. In fact, it would be hard to say such things at all whilst Bella is so strongly pressed against Jacob’s shoulder, and even harder to hear with his snoring.

Brushing past the potentially-scandalous opening paragraphs, Jacob seems to have enjoyed that Bella at least thinks of him somewhat in her dreams, however drowned out by Edward they may be. As to someone talking in their sleep as much as Bella, the only time I’ve been told of myself talking in my sleep was when I had my wisdom teeth removed and was under heavy anesthesia. Obviously, as the doctor later revealed, I talked a whole lot: everything from my bank statement to girls to movies to who-knows-what.  It is for this reason the doctor assured me he was under contract to never reveal anything I said whilst unconscious. However, to my horror, I later realized that the nurse had signed no such agreement.

ursula-oprah

It is a scary thing, talking in one’s sleep: but sometimes it’s an (admittedly unreliable) way to get into someone’s real thoughts. Bella  has obviously been thinking about Jacob a lot recently.

Even for me, leaning towards Team Edward, it hurts to see Jacob listening in on Bella and Edward’s conversation. How does that feel for him? I don’t know why, but I was under the impression he knew about the engagement; but now knowing that he didn’t, I can just imagine how devastated he is. Given the unconventional amount of time that Jacob spends with Edward’s girlfriend, he actually does have a relationship with her (as much as I have disagreed). It’s close enough to finding out that his girlfriend has decided to marry someone else, and everything he has done for the past months to convince her has been in vain.

There is a part of me who really wants to be happy, since Jacob is finally getting what he deserves, and perhaps he will realize that his behavior around another guy’s girlfriend isn’t right. If I was solidly Team Edward, I might feel that way. But I can’t. For some reason, I feel no victory in seeing Jacob leave. This is a pain that no one should have to go through. Jacob probably means well, in his own way. I know that if I discovered the same thing he did, I would react in the same way.

I am a bit proud of Bella, because she is finally coming to realize what she is doing to both Edward and Jacob:

“I couldn’t have them both, because Jacob could not be just my friend. It was time to give up wishing for that. How ridiculously greedy could any one person be?”

And later, to Jacob:

“It was wrong to stay with you when we wanted such different things. It’s not going to get better. I’ll just keep hurting you.”

It’s a sign that she might be growing up. It give me much more confidence in her being mature enough to get married, now that she is finally realizing her faults.

But oh, for page 524. Bella basically takes gasoline, piles of newspaper, and a lighted match, and casts all three at the same time upon my hopes. Why, when she is so close to ending it; when she is so close to finally letting Jacob go, and finally giving him a chance for happiness, does she turn around and cause him to come back? It is like a suicidal guy saying if a girl does not love him, he will kill himself. Or, for better example, a guy saying if a billionaire does not pay him money, he will kill himself. It is manipulative, no matter how hurt or downtrodden Jacob might be. And Bella falls right into it.

“Why wasn’t I stopping this? […] why couldn’t I find in myself even the desire to want to stop?”

However, there still is some sense in Bella’s head, however buried underneath these strange feelings it may be. She knows what is happening. She realizes she loves Jacob: but she knows it is not enough.

“Jacob was right […] He was more than just my friend. […] I loved him, much more than I should, and yet, still nowhere near enough. […] it was only enough to hurt us both more.”

I read an interesting theory once, from a professor in psychology who was writing about humans and love. In this theory, which probably goes out of the bounds of actual psychology, he proposed that there is no ‘one person’ that each of us is intended to be with forever. Rather, his theory said that there are about eight ‘right persons’ for each of us, but that since these eight are spread so much around the planet we will only have the chance of meeting one: a soulmate, of sorts. This study proposed that from a standpoint of compatibility mixed with probability, if someone was to find one of their soulmates, there would only be a very minute chance they would ever meet with any of the other ‘eight’, and thus wouldn’t feel as strong a connection with anyone else in their lifetime; even though the others do exist somewhere.

This makes me think of Bella, Edward and Jacob. What if, according to this theory, the probability actually did catch a glitch, and somehow there are two ‘right people’ for Bella in the same area? What if, both Edward and Jacob are equally right for her, and only Edward’s luck at finding her first gives him the better chance? Bella admits it herself: she loves Jacob too much for it to be good.

But why is it too much? The reason it is too much is because Edward was there first. If she had met Jacob first, wouldn’t you think she would be loyal to him, and Edward would be the one trying to steal her away? [Added: It was brought to my attention that Bella had met Jacob before, as mentioned in Twilight that she had known him for years. But, at that time it seems to be more of a passing friendship, and nothing very deep like Edward was. ]

I will say that, in spite of my points earlier, and my aversion to Jacob’s manipulation, that this could perhaps be my favorite chapter so far in this entire book. It’s a turning point, of sorts. I’m coming to realize just how deep Jacob runs in Bella’s heart: this piece that perhaps she could remove; but by removing it, might only open the wound again.

Question for the comments: If Bella had fallen in love with Jacob first, do you think it would change things? If Jacob had found Bella before Edward, do you think she would love him instead?

ADDED QUESTION: What if Edward hadn’t appeared at all, do you think Bella would be happy with Jacob?

——NOTES——

– I have something epic coming up on Youtube. Yes, epic. Bigger than Rob and Taylor epic.

– MTV has an exclusive look at the new title art for New Moon!

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191 Responses

  1. Oh, geez. Okay. Well, I pretty majorly feel for Jacob, for being Team Edward… and I’ll explain my story as briefly as possible… partially because it’s just freakin’ weird and it takes “Twilight Guy” to a new level… and also because I couldn’t NOT be a Jacob fan, hah.

    Okay. Well, here’s the thing. My (very straight, very male) semi-love interest, G, went through a breakup last year and, upon my suggestion, started reading Twilight. He loved it and as a LOT of people who’ve been through such situations do, really felt like his feelings were expressed through New Moon… but then, started really, really hardcore finding parallels between himself and Bella (and yeah, I acknowledge that it’s generally reader proxy and all but really…) and well, long story short, through all this, I ended up apparently as his Jacob. Talk of motorcycles and cliff diving and all. Anyway, he’s back with his (far more glamorous) girlfriend, so I’d have to say that though I’m nowhere near as forward, I do really “get” Jake. (I hope the parallel stops before it reaches Breaking Dawn status…. Because hale no, that’s not going to happen.)

    Now, all of that had a point. Bella and Jacob (NOT referring to me and G here) have insane chemistry. Their “just friends” scenes in the books are wonderful, and in all honesty their relationship is why New Moon is my favorite. They could most definitely work. BUT. If not for Edward, I highly doubt Bella would have reached out to Jacob like she did. They would have continued being friends, sure, but she would never have felt the need to become as close to him as she was. So it’s thanks to him that they have that potential… but it’s because of him that for Bella, it will never ever work. She’s made her choice in giving her heart to Edward, and she can’t take it back enough to give it to Jacob. He will always be second for her.

    An interesting thought that a professor first semester of my freshman year brought up… one’s supposed ideal match’s values should be the same as yours… but their personality traits should be the opposite. This, for me, could be taken as validation for either of the guys for Bella. Where she’s strong, they’re weak, and where she needs to be taken care of, they’re on it. (The boys are definitely more alike than they thought) But then, I think Edward’s values match Bella’s more. I think that they see life in very similar ways that Jacob probably wouldn’t get. He’s far more laid back than Bella… and let’s face it. Love Bella and Edward both, but they’re way high strung. Too much of that would make Jake crazy. And that’s nothing against Bella, really. It just is that she reacts to things far differently than he does.

    So I’m rambling. In a nutshell – I’m team Edward/Bella and Team Jake/Someone Awesome. And by someone awesome, I don’t mean… aw, heck. Just read Breaking Dawn.

  2. Wow, nearly 80 comments later and I still stand alone. I thought for sure there would be a number of people that could agree with what I had said about Edward never even pursuing Bella had she been solidly in love with Jacob. If you think about it, after their initial meeting: the hand over the mouth and nose as if she stunk, the murderous glance, and then not returning to school for a bit, she was no longer intrigued by him at all for that fleeting moment. Therefore, I solidly believe that Edward would not have cast her another glance, even knowing the he loves her, because his desire to keep her safe from him was so much stronger at that point. It’s really her persistence that brought them together in the first place. If she were in love with Jacob, she wouldn’t have thought another thing of him.

    Yes, I am Team Edward all the way and I adore his love story with Bella. Twilight is actually my favorite in the series because nothing can compare, to me, with the blossoming of their love.

    Still, in all we know of Edward’s personality, and of Bella’s, combined with Jacob’s tenacity, imagine how he would be if he did actually have her. Think of how hard he’s fought for her believing it’s a lost cause- he’s pretty much always acted as if he imprinted on her. The overbearing adoration… had it been realized first, it would be hard to walk away from.

    Also, I think that it would never have occurred to Jacob that he didn’t imprint on Bella, since he knows that to be something that is considered RARE. He would have continued on with her, and as we all know, nothing would have ever changed. If Jacob stayed with Bella, it would have become statistically impossible for him to ever imprint on another.

    And along those lines… Sorry, but I’m very disappointed in those of you that have decided this spoiler was not worthy of keeping under the rug. I know it’s sometimes hard to answer Kaleb’s questions as they are in this moment because of what we know by the end.

    Kaleb, I frequent a movie site that has spoiler tabs on it. When you want to write something that is considered a spoiler, you add these tabs to the front and back of it, then rather than showing, it only shows the word [spoiler] and you can click on it to reveal the words underneath. Perhaps you could set something like this up, then anyone wishing to discuss anything past this point in the book could label it, and you would be able to read through our comments without coming across sensitive information.

  3. well i am on team edward alllll the wayy!!

    but u did make me think..
    i find the “soul mate” information very interesting…
    Even if Bella had fallen in love with Jacob first I think she would still would have fallen for Edward after all. She basicly fell in love with him at first sight. Edward is someone that i like to call gorgeous!! He is soo amazing and just perfect. 🙂

    BUT if Edward was not alive(nor a vampire) I think maybe its possiable that she would be happy with Jacob. but i dont think she would ever be more in love with jacob than edward. or happier with jacob than edward.

    With all of that, i DO think Edward and Bella were really made for each other. When they are around each other you can just tell they are absoulty in love with each other. ahh i love twilight soooo much!!! and good info. and questions kaleb 🙂

  4. If Bella had fallen in love with Jacob first, there is no question that she would stay with him. Jacob and Bella are alike in so many ways, and have so many qualities that attract them to each other, they would have stayed together. And if Edward had not existed, then they would be together. Some people say Edward is Bella’s other half: I disagree. He is only a third of Bella. Edward is her love, Bella is her life, and Jacob is her family. Had Edward not existed, Jacob would have been her other half, taking love and half family, Bella making up life and the other half family, thus making Bella whole. When Edward left in New Moon, Bella felt whole around Jake because he was the family component she had been missing (and didn’t think she needed.), and was slowly becoming Bella’s other half, her love and her family. But Edward could never be that, because he can’t be that family component, as a) He wouldn’t seem like a brother to Bella, as Jacob does when he and Bella became friends, and b) They can’t have children, which could create a mother/father bond that makes them a family. When Bella realizes she does love Jacob, that is because category b is starting to form for him in her mind. ” … I saw the bobbing heads of two small, black-haired children, running away from me into the familiar forest.” If Edward did not exist, Jacob and Bella would get married, and be the parents of said children. I am Team Switzerland, and this comment is not at all biased, merely what I believe would happen, based on what characters say throughout the rest of the story! Thank you! But, when you read Breaking Dawn, you will see that Jacob and Bella *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* because, *SPOILER* was *SPOILER* and Jacob *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER*! Wow, that’s a LOT of spoilers! Oh, and THEN… *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* and *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER*, but then *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* and the *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER*, terrified by the *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER*!Oh, and now *SPOILER* is probably going to go *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* to *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER*, because *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER* EVERYTHING! What a jerk *SPOILER* is. Probably going to ruin some *SPOILER* *SPOILER* *SPOILER*! It makes me want to cry at the very thought of it! And then he’ll probably *SPOILER* *SPOILER* it! Poor thing! And there is my non-spoiling summary of the last third of Breaking Dawn, for you, Kaleb, leaving some things out even then! Thanks!

  5. LoL, Beth.

    Now, assume that Edward still exists, but that Bella was in love with Jacob before she met him. Would she have left Jacob for Edward or not?

    (I don’t think she would have.)

    That’s the first question that everyone is debating. I hadn’t even noticed the added question.

    Yes, I also agree that if Edward had never come along Bella would absolutely be happy with Jacob.

  6. I believe that if she had fallen in love with Jacob first and then met Edward it would have been like the Sam, Leah, and Emily story. This follows up on the idea that Edward and Bella’s love is kind of like that unavoidable imprinting. They dont know how to stay away from eachother. I believe that if all this supernatural stuff didnt exist she would have been with Jacob just like Sam would have been with Leah. Sam still loves Leah but his connection with Emily cant be ignored. Just as Bella loves Jacob but cant ignore the pull between her and Edward. So Jacob and Leah are left in the lurch so to speak, but this is magic and there is most undoubtedly some way to balance this out… thats all I’m going to say for now.

  7. If Edward didn’t exist then the series wouldn’t have existed. XD
    Seriously I have been asking myself that question, what if Edward didn’t exist would Bella end up with Jacob?hmmm…
    Bella most likely though be happy with JAcob

  8. If Edward were never in the picture, perhaps. But Jacob was able to become such an important part of Bella’s heart because he helped her heal from severe heartache. I think the one thing that you overlook in all this is that Bella is a caretaker. Those she loves she wants to see happy. Most of the time when she is running to Jacob its to heal whatever unhappiness she percieves he’s suffering and since she knows she is the cause, she wants to set it right. Jacob, however, is willing to do anything to “save” Bella from a fate worse than death and isn’t above using whatever manipulation he can. Jacob doesn’t view Bella being in love with an actual person so doesn’t feel he’s stealing her away from your typical human boyfriend. Personally, I thought it was just a little underhanded how Edward made sure that Jacob knew their best nights and that they were engaged. But, then Jacob also pulls his “I guess I’ll just go die” routine. Neither promised to play fair. What I like though… is Edward’s reaction to the stunt Jacob just pulled.

  9. I really don’t think so. Even though in this chapter she said she realized she loved Jacob, I just don’t think meeting him first would have changed anything. She said from New Moon that she loved him as a brother, and I think that in this chapter, she may have thought that she loved him as more because she was kind of caught up in the moment. Maybe not, but that’s what I thought. If Edward adn’t appeared at all, there would be no series, but going along with that I think that yes, IF there was no Edward (painfull even to type) Bella would be happy with Jacob. This topic get’s me into lots of big, phlosophical thoughts, but basically I think, looking at New Moon espicially, they connect at a level where she would be happy with him. That’s because, and this kind of works the same for any team edward people, there’s really no one to compare him to. I mean, we meet Edward first in twilight. We learn so much about his character, while there’s so little about Jacob. And then by New Moon when Jake really comes in, we have all (minus the team jacob people) decided that edward is the most amazing guy in the world, and no one could possibly compare. So as Jake’s character develops, we can’t help but compare him to Edward, the few ways they’re similar, all the ways edward is better, ect. And I’m sure that even though bella had known Jake for awhile, it wasn’t on the same level. And so in new moon, when she was already madly in love with edward and couldn’t see herself with anyone else and was so upset about him leaving, I don’t think Jake had much of a chance. But, if she had never met edward, then she wouldn’t be comparing him to edward, and she would probably think HE was the most amazing guy ever, and no one could compare, because obviously throughout the series he was second only to edward. So that’s my thoughts on that. But then, you have to remember that Bella really met jake and got to talking with him in twilight because she wanted information about edward, so if there was no edward, would she have actually ever really talked to jacob? Even in new moon, when she really builds up a friendship with ihim, it’s because she wants to do something reckless to hear edward’s voice. So really, would she have gotten to know jacob if there was no edward? This is giving me a headache 🙂

  10. um…if Edward didn’t even come along Twilight would be a waste of time. it probably wouldn’t even exist. duh.

  11. I don’t think that Bella would have fallen in love with Jacob. I just don’t see it happening. She never would have given him a second thought in New Moon if Edward hadn’t left and she didn’t decide to be reckless. But if, by some chance, she did fall in love with Jacob, she could have been happy with him, but she would have dropped everything and left him for Edward if she happened across him. She will always be happier with Edward, he is her soulmate. I think Bella and Edward belong together. You’d kind of have to read Breaking Dawn to see what I mean here…Bella explains it there.

  12. I think that If Bella and Jacob were together first, and if she was happy, Edward would have noticed and he would not dare to take that away from her, he would probably stay away in the first place and would save her all that confusion, that’s the big difference between Edward and Jacob, Edward always puts Bella first, Jacob puts himself first and then Bella.

  13. Hi Kaleb:
    First of all, I congratulate you because I can not believe you have time to do so many things; I must admit I feel I going crazy among college, photography classes and practices in the hospital (I’m studying Medicine).
    Well, according to my personal experience, real love develops gradually over the time, as people will know each other. In this case, the balance will be inclined in favor of Jacob, because he pass time with Bella when Edward leaves her. However, may be I’m a dreamer, but I think there is a person somewhere in the world that is done for each of us, and may even be more than one, but the majority doesn’t find that other person in a whole life, so we tend to conform with the love that grows out from the friendship and the life together, and probably we will be happy because we won’t know another way of love. But if by chance of fate, we meet our “soul mate”, I think that would establish an unbreakable connection just like the “imprinting”.

  14. You know, I think that it was Bella and Edward from the start. Even without Edward. Poor Jacob never had a chance.

    Pre-Edward, Bella never showed any signs of attraction to the guys around her, and their attention made her uncomfortable. It was Edward who changed all of that. I see them as fated. However you read it, the fact remains that they were kinda bumbling through life, no real purpose, and then that changed when they met.

    And in New Moon, it was really because she loved Edward that she grew to love Jacob. Because she loved Edward so much, she could not stop loving him, she needed someone as different from him as possible. Someone who wouldn’t leave her. Someone who was still young inside. Jacob fit. And you have to understand, it wasn’t the actual nature of the love itself, but Bella’s need to love and be loved in order to make sense of herself again. It was Edward all along.

    Jacob was there because of Edward. But he’s about as likely to end up with Bella as Leah is to ending up with Sam.

    Interesting theory your teacher had, although you were right that it wasn’t strictly psychology. But I think I may disagree with him. It may just be how much info I got from one sentence, though. But to say that there are eight implies that there are eight people who would equally suit you. If this is talking about all the ways I need someone to match up with me, that’s a very specific set of attributes. Which means that these theoretical people are interchangeable, or the same in one fundamental way. And I just don’t think that you can have people so close to each other. But as I said before, that’s just what I gathered.

    You might find it odd to know that I’m Switzerland all the way. I don’t really like Edward- the more I read the series, the more I see past Bella’s lovestruck optimism, and see arrogant, angsty, and tempermental. I’m much more of a Jacob girl myself, although I was an Edwardsupporter at one point… Now I just can’t simplify it into teams. Great chapter, Kaleb, or entry, or update, or whatever this is. I can tell you’ve taken a good break- there’s a lot less “My brain foggy so let me summarize” spots, and a lot more insights. (Please don’t take that as an insult- I write, too, and I know what writing looks like when you get tired.) I look forward to your next one!

  15. Yes yes..a person can love two people at the same time but it’s a bad idea! To the question if Bella had really bonded with Jacob first – Seriously – Edward probably would have killed her because she wouldn’t have been as vulnerable and drawn to him. Reflect how black his eyes were in Twilight first few days at school.
    Personally – I like Edward a lot. His patience and his ability to wait reflect on his being 104 years old. He only has time. Why fly off the deep end if you are immortal?
    As far as Jacob’s behavior – I felt bad for him when he found out that E and B were engaged but he had recently told Edward that he was going to fight (and unfairly at that). Edward let him know that he would lose and he would be fighting too. Someone had to lose. Shame on Bella for not having been a better friend and been upfront with Jacob when he was running with her in the woods.
    Edward, even though it was mean to reveal their relationship vow without Bella’s knowledge, kept true to what he said to Jacob. Not once (that I can recall) did Edward ever say “I will do this” and then he did the opposite. He maintained his integrity. What he said he followed through on, from his vegetarian lifestyle, to leaving Bella in New Moon, to protecting her from herself (via Alice), and many times more.

  16. The thing is, I agree with what you said…what if E and J was the right people for B?

    They are both so different and when B is with them, she too is different.

    But personally, when I’ve finished Eclipse I can’t help but wonder…not ‘if only Jacob and Bella met first’…(in the movie they did meet first, in the book, they didn’t), but I can’t help but think…if Edward just died as he was suppose to…if Carlisle had not prolonged his life by making him a vampire, B would probably end up with J. Or if Edward just hadn’t come back in Newmoon.

    J has it right when he said..”if there were no magic and no monsters..)…they would probably end up with each other. Which is of course what made is so sad for me…to be so close and yet so far…

    Manipulation by Jacob…*sighs*…this is what I don’t get, people just keep harping about this when…HELLO, both Edward and Bella does some cruel maneuverings and manipulation by themselves but nobody calls them on it cause they’re the main characters.

    What is Bella’s attempt on stopping Edward from joining the battle by mentioning..she’ll go crazy if he’s far away from her…playing on his guilt of ever leaving Bella in the first place if not manipulation…and considering how she was willing to endanger the Cullens by pulling Edward back from joining them in the fight, not even thinking if one of the Cullens, on of E’s family buys it there, Edward would have a big pile of guilt dropping him on him, and to think that the Cullen’s were protecting HER, she still does them a disservice by reducing their numbers…sneaky manipulative ungrateful bitch…(yeah, I really did want to wallop her here)..

    And everytime Edward warns Bella off from going with Jacob by saying that ‘Hell worry less, he only wanted her to be safe. gives him peace of mine..” that a lash of guilt trip there too….

    What people don’t really think about, try not to, and pretend they don’t do is that we all do some kind of manipulation in all our relationship…and the reason why it works…because those people loves us and wants to make us happy…sometimes it’s done without thought, sometimes it’s on purpose…it’s like a little child asking with big wet eyes and trembling chin…”don’t you love me?”

    It’s the same as that…so when people goes on and on at Jacob’s ‘manipulation’ and what not, well, I scoff at them…

    And Jacob was just trying to lash out at her, not that he really meant it, and was actually surprise that she did ask him…and since she did, why not…it’s like somebody that was hanging on with slippery fingers finally, out of nowhere, got a branch to hold on to…more power to you, Jake. He ain’t a man,. ain’t human if he didn’t make the best use of it…

    And HAH!, at least it got B to finally realize her feelings and justifies all that he did, his actions, his certain pushiness…she does love him and that was what he was trying to prove to her for so long…

    When it’s a matter of a woman between two guys, it always depends on a woman,..if the woman so much as give an extended gaze, a lingering touch…a much too warm smile, it’s obvious that any guy would think that she’s into him even if she keeps telling him no. And we have to admit, Bella gives more than that to Jacob.

    And Edward is not innocent either, he knew that Jacob was there but talked about the marriage anyhow, intending for Jacob to hear them…he admitted it…and I don’t blame him…so when Jacob did him a turn of the same, I don’t blame him either…

    Newmoon does remind of Wuthering Heights, of how love can turn ugly and cruel when we demand too much of it.

  17. Just wondering if there was any more information on that professor and his theory. Did a book or an essay ever publicize?

  18. 1st. I have to say even if Bella had loved Jacob first, I think she would have loved Edward more.
    2nd. I think Bella WOULD have been happy with Jacob if she never met met Edward.
    3rd. I AM solidly Team Edward and I STILL feel bad when Jacob is hurt so bad. That shows something.BUT I think it is for the best because Bella does just need to choose one and move on, and in truth she DOES love Edward more. I am not unreasonable in my Team-Edwardness, I recognize Jacob is nice and should not be in so much pain, I just like Edward better and think he should be with Bella more.(sorry I wrote so much)

  19. Well, Julia, Stephenie Meyer said that New Moon got most of its inspiration from Wuthering Heights, so that would make sense 🙂

  20. For the first comment question, I have no idea. 😀 For the second one, I think if Edward never came into the story at all, Bella would have been happy with Jacob. But I also think that if he just never came back after New Moon, Bella could never have been happy with Jacob.

    I know what you mean with prophase and interphase and stuff. We just started a unit on cell division, and the teacher said we were going to look at them under microscopes tommorrow. Someone in the class literally asked if we would get a Golden Onion. It was hilarious.

  21. OK, well i believe that, no it would not have been that way if Jacob had walked in first. when you read the fourth book i think you will understand even more, but for right now just remember that the only reason that Bella fell for Jacob was because she had hole in her heart where Edward was before. so all in all my answer is no.

  22. The whole bella-edward-jacob thing is so confusing. I mean, whenever bella makes up her mind about something, she suddenly takes a 360 turn and they’re always back to where they started. For me, Breaking Dawn was even more confusing. I would have definitely hated reading one chapter a week from BD.

    To your question: I do not think things would have been different if bella fell in love with jacob first. as to my reasoning: edward is still fascinated with bella more than jacob was, and I think she has always been fascinated by him too.

    If edward didn’t appear at all, I think bella would be happy with jacob.

  23. I think if she had fallen in love with JAcob first, she would have gotten more hurt when he imprinted.. So I think its good that she found EDward.

  24. Michelle,
    I think most of us do agree with you that had Edward met Bella when she was with Jake he would have tried to stay away and let her have a better life or a better life by his standards meaning a human life, I think alot of people (including me) agree with that, we’re jsut answering the question from a Bella stand point.
    Bella, even with Jake, because of their (Bella and Edwards) …connection would have noticed him too, and she would have been interested in him, thats what we’re getting at, because even if Edward did not fight to steal her away as Jake would, he would not be able to stay away, even when he believed himself to hate her at the begining of twilight he could not stay away, he would have been there, Bella would have gotton an unhealthy curiousity and no matter how much she loved Jake she would have chosen to take a chance on Edward because he is the “BIG” one (see my previous comments) whether he was in the race or not, he wouldnt fight for her if he knew she was happy but if he thought she’d be happier with him than he would give in, isnt that what he does time and time again in each book despite his better judgement? give in to whatever makes Bella happy? though of course being Edward he sees this as giving himself an excuse to be selfish because he does love her and could never be happy without her….I think Im rambling now and not making much sense but I just wanted to address the fact that though everyone commenting this post is saying how much we think in this reverse situation (loving Jake first) it wouldnt matter because of the greater love with Edward. we’re not nessicarily saying Edward would fight for her, just that she would pick him regardless.
    and now Im going in circles again, *sigh*, lol
    anyway to address my comment in the previous post I wasnt saying you thought all that just using the post as an example that not every team switz. member beleived the only way jake behaves the way he does it his age, that we dont and we have other beliefs as well…sorry to sound like I was misunderstanding you or calling you out, it was just an example. sorry 🙂 and I do believe that everyone on every twilight site is team stephenie, I was pretty mad that King thought he had the right to say certain authors sucked at writing.

    I think Im way off topic now but anyway Im done now, 😀 melissaturkey

  25. ps, about the spoiler thing, Kaleb already said in the chat thing that he was spoiled about Nessie and all that the day after BD when people were discussing it there (on the chat) so its kinda pointless to keep this spoiler free, though I tried in my first comment, it seemed impossible not to use HER as an example in this whole soulmate trumper theory business. not that everyone should go blabbing all BD’s secrets, we can leave a few surprizes right?

  26. This is my favorite chapter I really love it!!!

    And I think that Bella could be very happy with Jake is she hasn’t meet Edward.

    ps. sory for my bad english i’m from mexico

  27. hahahahahahahaha! no way would it have worked out as well with bellajacob. first of all, when u put the names together u get becob or jalla. not very appealing. but technically, if edward hadn’t seen her first, wouldn’t jacob had imprinted as soon as he was werewolf? due to previous studies of my own, none our werewolves have ever been lucky enough to be WITH THE GIRL THEY IMPRINTED ON AT THE TIME OF SAID IMPRINTATION (or imprinting. just tryn to sound smart here) but life has twists and turns and the future IS set in stone, when you think about it, so it’s completely redundant (asuming this actually happened) to even speculate what would of happened if you went back in time and changed it because it’s like that either way because u technically already went into the past and changed it so that’s why its the way it is now. my god time travel is confusing, but it sums up to you cant change a thing. point is no. plus . . . just read Breaking Dawn already BEFORE MY HEAD EXPLODES!

  28. Melissa,

    I like you. I think we could have a lot of great discussions about the Twilight series.

    The Jake/age issue I’m referring to stems back a few posts, where an overbearing amount of people explained away his horrid behavior because of his age, then in the same comment, saying he couldn’t actually love Bella because he’s too young.

    That said, I think you would also have to discredit Bella’s love, due to her age. So, basically, I think age has nothing to do with it. That’s just his personality type. It’s annoying sometimes, but I’ve grown to love him for himself over time. Just not near as much as I love Edward. LoL

    I’m going off topic to ask your opinion about New Moon: Do you think when Edward took Bella’s packet of pictures for her Mom, he did so knowing that what they were, and had removed the pictures of himself before sending it?

  29. I dont think age has anything to do with love, for Bella’s case or Jake’s.

    A woman I call my grandmother was 8 years old when she first met her future husband, who was 16 at the time, and she knew right off the bat she loved him and would marry him one day. I dont write that off as a childhood infatuation, I grew up listening to her tell that story and it doesnt sound like that. Even that young she knew she loved him, at first sight all of that, its actually that story that made me such a romantic sap. And the reason no matter what story I’m reading I look at all the characters, no matter what their age and believe their feelings are real for their story. age shouldnt be a determining factor to base any emotion. (sorry had to say that in response to those earlier post comments)

    Anyway! About New Moon, yeah I do think that Edward offered to send those pictures for her, knowing what they were, to take his out of there, just in case at some point in her life she was looking through an old album of her mothers and found them and got sad. I dont beleive he would want her in pain like that, and he did promise it would be like he never existed. and then he sent the pictures off after taking them out, but I do think he stashed those stolen pictures, along with the ones in her album under the floorboards with the rest of ‘their’ stuff.

    question for you: did you expect Edward was leaving when he started acting fishy in new moon, or did you beleive, like Bella falsly hoped, that he planned on taking her away with him alone?

    😀 melissaturkey

  30. Pretty much everything I wanted to say about the questions has been already written so I won’t go into all the details again. But I will say I agree with most, and think Bella would always choose Edward over Jacob.
    Also, if Edward had never come around I think that Bella and Jacob could have been happy together for a while at least. However, if Jacob were still a werewolf then He would eventually imprint on someone else, because he never imprints on Bella. So the eventual outcome of their relationships would be that he would leave her. He might regret doing so, and hurting her, but he really would have no choice. He would have to be with the girl he had imprinted on..aka Not Bella.
    Bella is better off with Edward!

  31. The thing about Bella and Edward is that when Bella first met, or rather saw, Edward (and vise versa)there was an instant connection between the two whether it was negative or not. In Midnight Sun Edward even says that upon seeing Bella and listening to Jessica’s rude thoughts about her he had the “strangest urge to step between them, to shield this Bella Swan from the darker workings of Jessica’s mind. What an odd thing to feel.” So let’s say Bella had fallen for Jacob first. Would she stay with him after meeting Edward? Honestly, I don’t think so. I think that no matter what she probably would have picked Edward over Jacob. But would she be happy with Jacob if Edward never became a vampire or, for the sake of arguement, was never born in her time? Probably.

    Also – I think the song Vindicated by Dashboard Confessional is a good song to represent the next chapter (and the whole of Eclipse…) 😉

  32. Great pots!

    About the theory that you read about, i hope that is true, because is must easier to find the right person for us if exist 8 off them.

    Now Bella’s case:

    If Edward had never appear(thanks god he did) i am sure that bella will fall in love by jacob and they will live a very happy life.

    for the other question, doesn’t mater if Bella known first Edward or jacob, because when she frist saw edward she automatically though that he was special, and strange( and totally gorgeous of course) but when she saw jacoob it was more like he’s cut and funny.

    In my opinion, Edward and Bella never have the chance of be apart, their love was just meant to be. To quote edward, since the first time they saw wich other, they became under a spell, if Bella saw Jacob first, it will just take a litter more time to her chosse edward.

    ( I am sorry by the mistakes of writing,my mother language isn’t english)

    Bye
    love the site

  33. Melissa,

    I actually did think that he was going to be leaving on his own, as much as I didn’t want to believe it. I tried to convince myself over and over that he would get over this, like Bella. Deep down, I did believe that he was going to go.

    I actually had to follow Stephenie’s advice and read through the book twice, because I did just as she thought readers would. I read through the book so fast, waiting to find Edward again. I was just as sure that he would be coming back. I mean, what’s the point of Bella and Edward, unless they’re together?

    When they reunited under the clock tower, that’s when I knew that Jacob would never win. I knew from that point forward, no matter what happened along the way, when the curtains were pulled shut, it would Bella and Edward always.

  34. I do think that, if it weren’t for Edward, Jacob and Bella would be together and happy. Given how much she already loves Jacob and how much more Jacob loves her, there would be no reason for anything less. Charlie obviously would be tickled pink to have Bella with Jacob, and despite much evidence in the contrary, Bella is likely to be swayed by his opinion. And sure, Jake annoys the hell out of her, but only in his attempts to steal her from Edward. That wouldn’t be a problem.
    I don’t, however, think that it would have made a difference if she’d fallen in love with Jacob first. She makes it clear that she loves them both, but just loves Edward so much MORE. So, let’s say that Bella did fall in love with Jacob first. As luck would have it, she stumbles upon Mr. Cullen one life-changing day at Forks High School. Edward pursues her friendship, desperate to get a better insight of her mind. He doesn’t take so kindly to insignificant mortal girls shutting him out of their heads. Now, we must think back to Twilight. Bella was, in a sense, addicted to Edward’s very being. He made the difference in her good and bad days, he controlled her heartbeat, he drove her crazy. She, no doubt, would have done everything possible to find out what he is, as she did in Twilight. The more she wants to learn, the more time she spends with him, and the more he draws her in. “Everything about me draws you in. […]” She soon finds out just how perfect he is, and we’re in the same situation. Jacob loves Bella, Edward loves Bella. Bella loves Jacob first. Bella loves Edward MORE. That’s the only factor that really matters. She simply loves him more. It was likely to have been that way in any case.
    Or so I say. Let’s bear in mind my tendency to be horribly, horribly mistaken about everything.
    Though this is how I see it happening. Yes, indeed.
    Poor Jake.

  35. I think that Bella is an extremely loyal person, and if she had met Jacob first, I find it hard to believe that she would have left him for Edward. And IF she had developed that relationship with Jacob first, I don’t think that Edward would have tried to ‘steal her away.’ All Edward wants for Bella, is for her to be happy, and as is evident in Eclipse, if she wanted him gone, he would leave her alone, never showing her how much it hurt him to do so. Had she loved Jacob first, Edward never would have even shown Bella that he loved her, so Bella would be none the wiser.

    Anyway, had Bella fallen in love with Jacob first, there would have been no story. It would have just been “Bella moved to Forks. Bella fell in love with Jacob Black. Jacob Black turned out to be a werewolf. Bella and Jacob lived happily ever after.” Not much of a story.

    And even though Jacob was a wee bit manipulative (or alot, whatever) I can’t really be mad at him. Bella HAD to realise that she was in love with him, and unfortunately, Jacob had to trick her for her to finally realise this.

    But I am still FIRMLY Team Edward! Woohoo!

  36. If Bella had found Jacob first, I think that she would have fallen in love with him, and that Edward wouldn’t do anything about it. Because he just wants to see her happy. And of course, they would be happy.

    This chapter wasn’t that shocking for me, because I saw it coming. Because Bella fell in love with Jacob in New Moon.

  37. (spoiler: of ch.26. i hope this comment is okay to write here. it was just so interesting to me.)

    the most interesting part for me in eclipse was in ch.26, when bella reveals that had edward not left her (in new moon) she didn’t know whether she would feel the same way about him. i mean, she said that after edward left she realized that she could not live without him, even when she was with jacob. i do not think she fell in love with jacob because edward left. i think there was more of a possibility that she would have considered jacob’s proposals more seriously had edward never left.

  38. so after reading that, i stopped believing that their relationship was as inevitable as i used to think. kind of goes with the 8 soulmates theory. if edward never left, i did wonder who bella would have chosen. but i don’t think that’s the same as asking “who would bella have chosen had she fallen in love with jacob first”.

  39. Eclipse is my favorite book in the series, and I have read it numerous times. I was quite torn at first over how Bella handled to situation with Jacob. It is certainly a tricky one. However, I don’t think that Bella ever intended to be with Jacob. I think that had Edward never appeared, that maybe she would be happy with Jacob, but I don’t know that she ever would have dated him. I think her feelings for Jacob stemmed out of being so hurt by the loss of Edward. She formed this emotional connection to replace the one she had lost. I also don’t think that she is mature enough at this point to deal with the ramifications of what she had/has done… only time tells with that. Overall I think that she could be happy with Jacob, but never truly fulfilled!

  40. It’s an interesting question because it almost seems like jacob was ment to not be in love with Bella. He is so close to imprinting on her but (you will read about this later in the series) there’s always one thing holding him back no matter how hard he tries. So I don’t think she would have chosen Jacob…and through wat he does in the book you can sense y Bella wasn’t exactly in love with him. This was a chapter that made me want to yell at Bella, slap Jacob, and talk to Edward for a bit(I don’t feel like punching him) cause Jacob is just evil for telling his best friend to either kiss him or let him die…what does he think will happen? (redo that, I wanna hit Jacob’s face with a large hammer) Bella is an idiot cause her Fiance can hear Jacob’s thoughts and she doesn’t even consider how much kissing him will hurt Edward!!! how dumb IS she? And does she REALLY think someone like JACOB will kill himself just cause his best friend won’t kiss him? And I feel kinda bad for Edward cause he has to watch the whole thing happen. I’m surrprised that he hasn’t gone and punched Jacob’s face til it was distorted and bloody for wat he did since Edward is supposed to overreact a LOT. If I was in his situation I wouldn’t be able to resist giving Jacob’s face a couple of punches. And as for Bella I still wanna yell at her SOOOOOOOOO much for kissing Jacob back AND falling in love with him when she was ENGAGED! So this was not one of my favourite chapters cause it makes me so mad but it is memorable…
    srry about the long post

  41. Yes, Bella would have been happy with Jacob. When she never would have met Edward he would have been perfect for her. She loves him (even when I don’t like it) but she loves Edward more.

    When Bella would have dated Jacob first the surronding of the B/E relationship would have been so different. Both – Bella and Edward would have had reasons to stay away from each other. I think she still would have had feelings for him. The question would be – how would Edward react realizing that Bellas boyfriend is a werewolve. Would be a funny storyline… Nevermind, I’m glad that it is B/E. I understand Jacobs actions but I hated his bribery towards Bella. I really wanted to strangle him. That was immature and childish. But at the very end nothing changed – even when she realized her feelings she still stayed with Edward. Hehe.

  42. I also think if edward never had appeared in her life bella would have been happy with jacob.

    But if edward had come after bella started a relationship with jacob…
    well you shouldn´t only consider bella´s feelings but also edwards. because he tried to stay away from her in order to her being safe even when she didn´t have a boyfriend. I think if she had been togheter with jacob and had been happy, he might have convinced himself to leave… because he always wants the best for bella and not for him. But still if it were up to bella i think she would have chosen edward!

  43. @ joanna: she didn´t fall in love with him when she was engaged. she fell in love with him in new moon, after edward left her, she just didn´t realize it before.

  44. Michelle,
    I admit, I cheated when I read new moon. I knew he was going to leave the second he kissed her like he had when he thought they’d never see eachother again. I didnt want it to happen but I saw it like one of those freak storms that come out of no where for humans but thinking back they realize the world around them was pretty devoid of animal life, they had all run off. I felt like that. And the second I realized that I skipped to the last page, saw Edward was there by her side and resumed reading chonologically.
    So when he did leave it didnt hit me like a knife, I just said to myself, “its ok, he’ll come back.” And then I read through the whole thing, fell in love with Jake as well (he was terribly sweet in new moon) but rejoiced like mad when Edward didnt step out into the sunlight, lol, ’cause for Bella there was no one else after Edward so its kinda funny answering a question about if she had been in love before Edward.

    🙂 melissaturkey

  45. This whole situation is so complicated, that just trying to organize my thoughts in a way that others can understand is giving me a headache. But I’ll do my best…

    If Bella and Jacob had become friend pre-Edward then she may or may not have falled for Edward. You know how Bella is, it would pretty much depend on what kind of day Edward caught her on. But really I don’t think she would’ve been friends with Jacob, without all the Edward-stuff. If she hadn’t met Edward, he wouldn’t have left, and if he hadn’t left, she wouldn’t need motorcycles, and if she didn’t need motorcycles, she wouldn’t need Jacob. See what I mean? But it could have worked out so that they would’ve become friends. Maybe Billy and Charlie would’ve set something up between them. Maybe some random vampires would’ve been passing by, and smelled Bella (remember she’s all crazy good smelling to pretty much all vampires) and gone berserk, thus causing the werewolves to go berserk trying to protect Bella.

    There are a million ways this could’ve unfolded, and all we will ever really know is the way it did. There’s really no way to know…

  46. Wow…i hadnt ever thought of it that way. its a very good point. im thinking maybe you’re right. if bella HAD indeed fallen in love with jacob first, she would probably be loyal to him. because though she would love edward too, she would probably love jacob more…and feel more “right” with him because edward seems like something too good to have.

    and that theory sounds pretty awesome

  47. In my opinion, Bella would have been happy with Jacob just as much as if she was with Edward, seeing that her paths never crossed with vampires. I want to point something out though. How come you didn’t reflect of the future Bella saw of herself with Jacob? It’s really a huge point in the series. It means that it’s not just the ultimatum-type choice, “I must be with Edward or I shall perish!” anymore, but it introduces the thought that being with Edward might be too much, or even a burden.

    Just saying8)

  48. My hearth ached for Jacob in this chapter, yeah it was inmature that he totally played on bellas emotions to get her to kiss him but I cant say that it made me angry at Jacob, because so they say everything is fair in love and war, and I cant say that if it was myself in the same situation I wouldnt have done the same thing,I think that the whole relationship between jacob,bella and edward has a lesson, Jacob was the easy choice, Edward wasent, but at the end she chose the person she trully loved not the person that was the easiest to be in love with.

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